[music continues]
[music fades]
[Lazar] Hi, I'm Bob Lazar.
In December of 1988,
I was hired as a senior staff physicist
by a U.S. defense contractor called
EG&G Special Projects.
I was told that I would be working
on an advanced propulsion system
out in a remote area of the Nevada test site
known as Area 51.
Myself and 21 other people
were responsible for back engineering a technology
that originated from another civilization.
Although this was a highly classified project,
I was never comfortable knowing
that this secret was being kept from the world.
As work there progressed, I began to worry
that what I knew could endanger my life.
Wanting to protect myself,
I decided to go public and reveal the secrets of S4.
Since then, my story has been told countless times
from people all over the world.
No one has ever been able to show exactly
what I saw with my own eyes.
Until now.
[music builds]
[music fades]
[reflective music]
[footsteps on grass]
Wow, that's a big carrot you got there.
[woman] Well... [mumbles]
I'm sure they're gonna like the greens too.
[indistinct chatter]
Come here, come here.
Boy!
[indistinct chattering]
Rockstar hair on it.
-[loud crunch] -[indistinct chatter]
[overlapping dialogues]
[Lazar] I get asked a lot if I regret going forward and...
I have also said, for years,
"My mind goes back and forth."
If I go forward, I come to this point
in my life, if I could go back in time,
I do wonder what would happen if I didn't go forward and just
played along and didn't take
anyone out to the site to show 'em and...
I don't know how things would have turned out.
I don't know if that would have been the
right thing to do anyway,
'cause it really bothered me that
all this was being kept secret.
Ah, there's really no way I can prove it
without revealing my identity and getting myself into
more trouble than I have already.
[interviewer] Exactly what's going on up there?
Well, there's several, uh,
actually nine flying saucers, flying disks
that are out there of extraterrestrial origin.
They're basically being dismantled but
some are, well, in various stages of--
of completion built from other parts
and they're being test flown
and basically just analyzed.
I was always interested in science and engineering,
particularly things that
operated or controlled huge amounts of power, like,
high-powered lasers, rocket engines, jet engines,
explosives, things of that sort,
and started building small jet and rocket engines
in my late teens.
I remember, um,
either buying this magazine or I--
I might have been subscribed to it at the time, but, um,
this is back when I was either in high school or junior high.
And, um, yeah, I saw that...
...you know, a jet engine on a go-kart going, "Well,
nothing's cooler than that," you know, when you're a kid.
Yeah, but I wanted to know everything about that.
You know, a jet engine, you-- you--
you could build a jet engine and--
Anyway, I became fascinated with all this and
the power and-- and whatnot.
And, um... you know, noted from the article that there was a
guy named Eugene Gluhareff and lived in
California somewhere and,
you know, time-- time went on, years go by, and
I moved with my parents out to California and,
you know, I-- I think at some point this--
this magazine popped up again,
you know, and I went... "Wait, there's... that--
that guy's out here," you know, and I looked and I--
I think it was in Gardena, California.
I went, it's like a 30-minute drive.
So, you know, I just drove out there
and, you know, here's, uh,
this guy's shop was just in this little
kind of [chuckles] disintegrating building,
you know, knocked on the door and there's the guy.
And, uh, you know, we-- we start talking and um...
in-- in a short time,
you know, he saw how interested I was
and explaining everything.
And we-- we became friends.
Then it was me constantly going
back and forth there and, uh--
and learning a lot about how--
how everything worked, you know, supersonic aerodynamics and the--
you know, the shock waves that work inside, the ju--
stuff that you're not gonna
learn in high school at that time.
And I became more and more interested in--
you know, that really became the basis,
the spark anyway, of what got me interested in,
you know, that kind of propulsion.
[eerie synth music]
[inaudible]
An old friend of mine, Jim,
he worked in the same place I did,
Fairchild Electronics, and
came in one day and said,
"I went to the racetrack last night."
I think it was Orange County Raceway
"And they had jet cars.
It's just this big jet engine with wheels on it.
And they were racing, you know, fire is blasting out the back."
I-- And he said, "Yeah, you gotta go."
And I went there. I was, you know,
probably-- just my early 20s, maybe 21 years old.
And, I-- you know, I thought.
"That is without a doubt the coolest thing
I have ever seen."
And I immediately-- I have to have one of those things.
And um, I think that was kind of the seed that started it.
[music builds]
[engine roaring]
[fire roaring]
[engine roaring]
[laughing and cheering]
Well, it's so cool. I lit it and I just see this car
pulling away from me. I said,
"Jeez, I wonder if I'm gonna catch it."
[cheering]
[man] Three...
...two...
-...one... -[metal thuds and locks]
-...zero! -[engine roaring]
[Lazar] My wife had a Honda Civic.
And as it turned out, just looking at it one day,
just the hatchback really looked like a jet would fit in there.
I just started taking it apart.
And, uh, to her surprise,
there was a jet in there in a short period of time.
But, uh, she was okay with it and
kind of became a project for a while.
And, uh, it turned out to be pretty cool.
[eerie synth music]
[reporter] He also said he worked as a physicist at
Los Alamos National Lab,
where he experimented with one of the world's
largest particle beam accelerators,
a half mile long behemoth
capable of generating 700 million volts.
Los Alamos officials told us
they had no records of a Robert Lazar ever working there.
They were either mistaken or were lying.
A 1982 phone book from the lab lists Lazar
right there among the other scientists and technicians.
A 1982 clipping from the Los Alamos newspaper
profiled Lazar and his interest in jet cars.
It too mentioned his employment at the lab as a physicist.
We called Los Alamos again.
An exasperated official told us
he still had no records on Lazar.
[Lazar] Well, while working at Los Alamos National Lab in 1982,
the local newspaper did a front page story
on a jet car I had built.
Coincidentally, Dr. Edward Teller
was giving a speech at Los Alamos that same day.
[crowd applauds]
[applause continues]
One, two, three, four.
We don't want war.
Reagan...
...is our first president...
who had the courage...
to tell the American people...
a big part... of the truth.
When I arrived early to hear his speech,
Dr. Teller was still sitting outside
reading a story about me in the newspaper.
I used that to strike up a conversation
and we had a short chat about the jet car.
Then later I listened to his speech.
Now, I never met Dr. Teller again, but in 1988
when I decided to re-enter the scientific community,
I sent him a resume, and inquired about a job.
Dr. Teller responded by telephone
and told me that he was no longer active,
but just functioned in a chief consultant capacity.
He gave me the name of a contact to call in Las Vegas.
I made that call and things progressed from there
until I got into the program at S4.
I had left the lab, moved back and started sending out resumes
and that's when he said, "I think I have" you know,
"I have something you might be interested in."
And that's when he directed me to EG&G and
their special projects division is where
I had the interview and...
that was actually apparently for yet another job.
And after my interview, they said,
"You know, there's actually a different position
that you might plug into a little bit better."
So, you know, it was kind of a-- a bumpy road to S4, but
it's-- was all through, uh, Teller.
[reporter] EG&G, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed
for the job at S4, also has no record.
It's as if someone has made him disappear.
-[industrial-era music] -[man] The consulting engineering firm
of Edgerton, Grumershausen and Grier,
these three together with their staff
will conduct the highly important
Teller Alpha experiment
devised in 1947 by Dr. Edward Teller,
a University of Chicago physicist
and Los Alamos consultant,
involves the Zero Tower and the Teller Alpha reflectors.
[music changes to eerie]
[man] He is not your typical, uh,
straight-laced science guy,
science nerd that, uh, might
typically be hired at a place like Los Alamos or at S4.
So, you know,
if you wanted to hire a guy who could think clearly
out of the box and help solve problems,
but who could be discredited, if you needed to do that,
Bob was probably the best person in the country at the time.
He was perfect for it.
My name is George Knapp.
I'm an investigative reporter,
former anchor at KLAS-TV,
and I'm the guy who broke the story about Bob Lazar.
[indistinct] high school reunion or something.
-Yeah [chuckles] -Look at you!
-Hey, it's good to see you. -You too, man.
I get more UFO books than... anybody in-- on the planet.
No doubt.
That's all CIA secret history stuff.
I got some Emmys and...
[chuckles] "I got--
I got some little Emmys out there."
[man speaks indistinctly]
Lazar, 51.
Lazar, Lazar, 51.
Uh, but it all starts with you, so it's your fault
-that my house looks like this. -[chuckles]
Oh, I remember you showed me a flying--
-There it is! With the aliens inside. -Yeah.
[chuckles] Yeah, I thought that was really cute.
[overlapping dialogues]
Let me start this way first, so...
This is the first time Bob and I have ever
-been on camera together. -Mm-hmm.
You know, when I first met him,
he-- he came forward and spoke to us
'cause he was afraid for his life.
So I started trying to check out what's on his resume,
where he had worked, where he'd gone to school.
Um, started with the schools, and...
...it was an immediate roadblock.
You know, MIT and Caltech
both said, "We don't have any record of him."
I thought, "Well, this series could end right here, you know."
And then so this prompted conversations with me and Bob,
and he explained some of what was going on.
He said, "Look, I worked at Los Alamos.
I was there. I was working in a
scientific capacity on classified programs.
That is a fact."
And I decided, "Well, that's what we'll focus on."
If he worked at Los Alamos
in a scientific capacity on classified stuff,
-[sharp slap] -this is a go.
And so I started a
COP correspondence with Los Alamos,
and they were a pain in the ass right at-- from the beginning.
"We don't have any record of him
ever being there in any capacity. Sorry."
Then we had the phone book.
There he is in the phone book.
I sent it to 'em. "Hey, folks, here he is."
"Yeah, we-- we can't find a--" I think they called it a Z number.
"Can't find it. Sorry."
Then I had the Los Alamos Monitor front page story about
Bob being a physicist working there. I sent that to 'em.
"Have you guys seen this?"
Los Alamos is a small town.
It's not like he could lie about it on the front page
of the paper and get away with it.
"Nope. Sorry, we don't have him.
But maybe he worked for Kirk Meyer."
So I started a correspondence with Kirk Meyer.
This is a company that is a headhunter.
They hire people.
They find, uh, people to fill positions,
scientific and technical capabilities
at places like Los Alamos Lab.
"You have records on a guy named Robert Lazar."
And they said, "Yes, we do." I said, "Can I get them?"
Said, "Yeah, if you get a signed letter from him
or we can send them to him or you with a--
with a letter with permission."
I said, "Great." And sent it to 'em.
Weeks go by, no response.
Months go by, no response.
I'm writing back to him.
There's a-- I got a stack of letters like this
to Los Alamos and Kirk Meyer.
And I'm asking 'em, "You said you had the-- the records.
You said you had hired him.
You got him a job there. Can I get 'em?"
And eventually, it was a back and forth.
"Yes, we have 'em."
"No, we can't find 'em."
"No, we never had 'em."
I knew they were lying to me.
That really... is a key moment for me
because I knew that Los Alamos was lying to me.
And I knew that Kirk Meyer was lying to me.
And it pissed me off.
[retro synth music]
[man] He says he was hired to work at an area called S4,
which is a few miles south of Groom Lake.
At S4, he says, are flying saucers,
antimatter reactors and other working examples
of technology that is seemingly beyond human capabilities.
Right. This-- this came from somewhere else.
I mean, as bizarre as that is to believe,
but I mean, it's there. I saw it.
I know what the current state of the art is and--
in-- in physics and it's-- it can't be done.
Groom Lake, Area 51.
The, uh, the installation is surrounded
by the Groom Mountain Range
and there's a large dry lake bed.
That's Groom Lake.
Just south of that is S4 and Papoose Dry Lake.
[music builds]
The way it worked was they'd call me at random days and
they'd say, "Mr. Lazar, it is now such and such time.
We need you to come out today."
So I'd go out there.
I'd drive out to EG&G Special Projects,
which was right in McCarran Airport at that time.
I'd go through a little security there
and then out on the tarmac
and board one of the Janet flights.
They were only used by the government
for going back and forth to the test site.
[man on radio] Flight 363 Las Vegas Tower,
runway 26 right, line up and wait, traffic downfield.
[man 2 on radio] Flight 826 Ryder, I said.
[man] 1313 straight in at Bravo 5
and contact the ramp traffic holds in position.
[man 2] Hey, cross 26 right, Bravo 5,
over to Rant House, 1330.
[Knapp] Now it's well known how people get to Groom Lake.
The Janet planes are now infamous, you know,
and the buses with the blacked out windows.
But back then when Bob first shared it with me
and we made it public,
the-- the general public had no idea how that worked.
We put that out there.
Bob knew about it
and it would confirm, you know.
[suspenseful music]
[Lazar] When I got to Area 51
off the plane and into the facility,
there were very few people.
I just went into a-- a small building
and we had to sit down across the desk from somebody
and they'd have a lot of papers explaining what I was signing
and what I'm expected to do and what I'm
expected not to talk about, so on and so forth.
[ominous music]
The next time I went out there,
they had a bus, a blue bus,
which was essentially a Blue Bird school bus,
just painted navy blue with the windows blacked out.
That I got onto with Dennis, who was my supervisor at the time,
and we drove south to another facility, now known as S4.
[on recording] We're taken by bus south of there.
The bus has the windows blocked out of it
and they drive about
15, 20 minutes, something like that, on a dirt road.
Every time I got on the bus,
I walked up and grabbed the
long chrome pole that's right by the seat
and pretty much just spun around and sat there
or close to the front.
Dennis always sat-- he never sat next to me,
he always sat across from me
and looked at me the whole time,
which was really uncomfortable.
Now, the windows were blocked out, but
if I leaned forward, I can see out the front window.
[engine rumbling]
As we slowed down, I could feel that we were--
we were slowing and turning at the same time
when we came to a stop.
When I got out of the bus,
I can see just desert around us.
I can see part of Papoose Lake behind me
and then when I walked around the front of the bus,
we were at the hillside and
Dennis was by me and all that was in front of us was a door
and a security camera above it.
We're going into the facility the first time.
It's a relatively small room with a table and chair there.
There was a security guard in the chair
and he acknowledged Dennis.
I walked in.
Behind him on the right,
there's the hand scanner.
[retro synth music]
First time I went in there with Dennis,
obviously I had no badge, it had to learn,
so we had to, you know, train the machine,
but subsequent times when I put my hand on there,
the light shines through your hand and measures
the bones in your finger,
determines who you are
and your badge comes up out of the slot.
Each door you have, you have to swipe it
to get access to the room
and somewhere that records the time you went in,
when you come out, etc.
On the front is a picture of my face.
Uh, there is a big M.A.J. written sideways on it.
I think they're locations
and they get-- they get punched with a star
where you have access to them.
There's an employee number on there.
There's a dark blue and light blue
diagonal stripe up in the corner.
The Department of Naval Intelligence,
the stripes on the side.
[interviewer] And the s-- the star punch that you saw...
[Lazar] Was on S4.
Yeah.
[pulsing electronic music]
[Lazar] It's a long, desolate hallway,
for the most part, dimly lit.
Just a two-tone green cinder block hallway.
Off to the right would be... the nurse station,
which is just several steps down that way.
But the main hallway, when you open the door
and you look straight down,
pretty much goes to a vanishing point.
It's a long, long hallway.
And you'll have doors off to the left
that lead to the experimental areas and the hangars.
Uh, the doors to the right will be: bathroom and,
uh, the cafeteria, and then
once you pass the main hangar, the big hangar,
I have no idea what's past there.
[echoing footsteps]
There is a small medical facility there.
Uh, it's the only female I saw, ever, in the facility.
She explained that we are potentially working with
a lot of unknown materials
and there could be sensitivities or allergic reactions to them.
So she drew a small grid on the bottom of my arm
and had a variety of
small needles with different substances on them and
pricked a little area inside each one of those squares,
uh, just to see, you know, if I'd have any reaction to them.
I was also instructed to drink this
liquid that I said smelled like pine.
It's kind of an amber-colored liquid, if I recall.
And, it did give me a reaction that that evening,
I think I had stomach cramps.
But, I can't really say that caused them.
You know, it's coincidental, so.
But I-- [chuckles] I can't officially blame it on that.
[electronic pulsing]
When I first began at S4,
I would randomly be taken into a small room,
which contained a table, a chair,
and 120 or so briefings in blue folders.
These reports appeared to be an overview of alien information,
which could be used to brief scientists from any field
about the scope of the whole project,
and not just their specific field of endeavor.
The file on top was Project Galileo.
And as it turned out, that's the project that I was part of.
And that clearly... referred to reverse engineering
a recovered alien spacecraft.
My job in this program was to be part of a back engineering team.
Back engineering is the act of taking a finished product
and tearing it apart to find out what makes it tick.
The goal in this program was to see
if the technology of the disc
could be duplicated with Earth materials.
Dennis brought us into the lab. He said,
"This is where you're gonna be spending most of your time."
I can see it was a... typical lab setup.
There was stuff, components, everything all over the place.
And one guy in there, Barry, who--
who got up immediately and was
clearly really happy to see me.
It seems like he used to work with somebody else.
He had a lot to say, he was excited
to show me everything and bring me up to speed.
It was kind of like a little kid at that point.
"Wait till you see this."
And, you know, he'd display
how the amplifier,
you know, operates connected to the emitters and
how things operate, even though they're not connected, and--
But yeah, he was... very anxious to show me everything
and anxious to make some progress too.
[retro synth music]
So this is where he said,
"We're focusing primarily on the
power and propulsion system of the craft."
And I said, "Great,
w-- what... craft?"
I think he was holding off intentionally,
telling me anything, because what he wanted me to do
was to feel the gravitational field on the reactor.
So he went over, he rotated the emitter and the reactor was on.
He said, "Go ahead and try and touch that."
And when I pushed my hands on it,
that was the biggest scientific shock I'd ever had
because there's nothing in the world that can do that.
And he said, "That's what propels the craft.
And that is a gravity generator."
And that... was the moment that...
I realized [chuckles] what was going on.
Barry indicated that what I saw there was
the propulsion system in its entirety.
He started with the reactor and
the small hemisphere on the plate.
said, "This is apparently the power source."
To the left of that on the ground
was what he referred to as the amplifier.
And to the left of that
at 90 degrees, was a large pipe looking object.
He said that was the emitter.
These function together to produce
a gravity propulsion system.
The power base frequency was created by the reactor.
The amplifier increased its amplitude
and that was channeled into the emitter
and focused or beamed,
wherever you want to provide the propulsion.
Barry shut the system off by rotating the emitter
and then he proceeded to take apart the reactor to
show me it had components too.
When he did that, you were able to touch
the hemisphere in the reactor,
remove the hemisphere and then you can see a small tower
with a tube coming off of it.
That tower had a cap on it.
The cap slid off and inside...
was a triangular piece of a...
...almost copper-colored... material.
It had little slice marks on it
and that material turned out to be element 115,
a super heavy element yet to be discovered at the time.
To start up the reactor, of course,
we need some element 115.
In fact, you need 223 grams, which is just
under half a pound, machined into a wedge like this.
And a piece of 115 this size can be utilized as fuel
for a period of 20 to 30 years.
Element 115's melting point is 1740 degrees Celsius
and its standard oxidation state is plus 3.
The atomic radius of 115 is 1.87 angstroms.
The frequency of the carrier wave for element 115's
gravity A wave is 7.46 hertz at a one micron bandwidth.
This is the reactor, and from what
we've been able to determine, it's what powers the craft.
It's made of several components.
First is a removable hemisphere.
There's a tower,
and we'll call our drift tube on the side,
a small cap,
that comes off,
and inside the tower...
...is what we think is the fuel, element 115.
The fuel element is placed inside the tower,
cap is placed on,
and then, as soon as the hemisphere
makes a flat connection to the base,
it'll create its own gravitational field.
It becomes operational.
It will push your hands away
as soon as that's sat on there.
And the field is-- feels similar to... uh,
like poles of a magnet.
There's some elasticity to it.
You could push back on it as hard as you want,
but-- and a-- a really important thing is
it's not transferring that force to the base.
Even though this would move,
you can push on the field
and it wouldn't slide this.
I mean, if you had two magnets with like poles
and you pushed on one, the other one would go sliding across the table.
That doesn't happen here.
Through X-rays, we were able to determine
that there's a hollow tube
that goes around the base.
We assume that's something like a cyclotron,
where particles are accelerated around
and there's, if you wanna call it an off ramp,
is the drift tube, comes up and interacts in the tower
in some way to produce energy.
Now, this device doesn't produce any heat at all.
It didn't produce one degree... of temperature change,
no matter how much load it was under.
To turn the reactor on...
...the-- all the components in the craft
are connected in some way,
but not physically.
And we really don't know how that is.
Um, if you take one of the emitters
and you rotate it past 20 degrees,
the reactor will turn on,
and you can no longer even get your hands by it.
Conversely, to turn it off, rotate... the emitter,
the reactor shuts down.
And assuming that's removing the load from the reactor,
I think it's just load sensing.
It sees that the emitter and amplifier wants power
and it turns on, but the exact mechanism
that's taking place there is-- is completely unknown.
So I began to feel the field about up here.
And at-- at this distance, there's--
y-- there's no way you're moving your hands any closer.
But, uh-- I guess the most amazing thing is
leaning into it, putting all your force on that,
no-- nothing moves at all.
And when the reactor's off, you can easily slide it.
You know, so, that's-- that's really impressive.
We call this a gravity propelled craft, a gravity generator.
And we're calling it that because,
we know what-- we know the effects of gravity.
We know how it works.
Um, we don't know everything about it, but...
...this produces an effect similar to gravity.
So we're calling it that
because we don't know of any other forces
that exist like that.
This could, of course, be
something other than gravity.
This could be a completely other force
that we're just not familiar with.
And we're just labeling it, you know, as gravity propulsion,
a gravity field coming off of here, uh,
just because that's all we're familiar with.
Um, but...
keeping that in mind,
we tried to see if it was
possible to shield it
with, uh, different materials.
You know, we tried cardboard, plastic, metal, everything.
And the field-- Eh--
The field interacts with everything.
Um, and there's nothing really that shields it.
So... um...
You know, it's-- again, it behaves like
gravity does, but...
...it could certainly be something else.
[suspenseful music]
Part of the fear was based in the fact that
they had said I was replacing somebody
that was killed in the project.
They were being pressed to produce some results.
And, I think, from what I understand,
-they cut into an operating reactor -[torch hissing]
-[loud explosion] -and it detonated.
It's not like it was a--
you know, a research project where you're--
you're really into it.
It was-- it was exactly like disarming a bomb...
...every single day.
That's what it was like, because, a-- once again,
we had no idea what we were working with.
And we were working with absolutely tremendous
amounts of energy,
tremendous amounts of power, in very condensed sources.
The slightest wrong move
could release a tremendous amount of energy.
[music fades]
[ominous sci-fi music]
So as part of our investigation,
we go through all the normal protocols.
We contact the U.S. Air Force at Nellis.
I'm asking questions about Area 51.
They won't answer any.
Um, later on, I asked them about a place called S4.
I called the Nellis Air Force Base,
with their public information office,
somebody I had got to know over the years,
"Do you have any place called S4
on the Nellis Range?"
And the answer was yes.
And in fact, they said there's more than one.
I said "Can you tell us where it is?" "No."
"Can you tell us what goes on there?" "No."
"But it's real?" "Yes."
And I asked them about Papoose Lake.
"You got anything there?" "No. Absolutely not."
"Nothing, ever." And I'd asked people who worked out there,
anything at S4, Papoose Lake. "Never, ever.
We don't even have a way to get there. There's nothing there."
I knew that was not true.
You know, we eventually got some satellite photos
that showed us there's a road from Groom down to Papoose.
Why do you build a road down there to
a place that doesn't exist and there's nothing there?
The S4 installation is built into the mountain,
and the hangar doors are built on an angle
commensurate with the slope of the mountain.
These doors are covered with a sand textured coating
to blend in with the side of the mountain and the desert floor.
-So here's the entrance, right here. -Okay.
This is-- this is the area where the-- the hangar doors are.
-[Lazar] Mm-hmm. -[man] And then this is, let's say,
the side door, where the mouse is here.
And as of the f-- 25th of June 2024,
the terrain here is so, let's call it beige or yellow,
-[Lazar] Mm-hmm. -which was not like that.
Because if I click on the timeline,
-you can go back in time in Google Earth. -[Lazar] Mm-hmm.
[man] So... if I go just one notch,
-[Lazar] Mm. -look at-- look at the difference
-in color of the terrain. -[Lazar] Yeah, yeah-
That's the actual color.
And in the-- the 2022 version of the satellite imagery,
you actually see detail here.
And if you get closer, you get-- you even see
-the Joshua trees and all that. -[Lazar] Mm-hmm.
[man] But if I bring this back to the latest,
-look how-- Everything disappeared. -[Lazar] Everything disappears.
[man] Which is clearly intentional.
But what it did is
you no longer-- so, you can actually fade-- zoom out
you'll see this beige--
-Look how they-- -Oh, wow!
Isn't that in-- interesting?
[mumbles] Interesting.
-It's unbelievably intentional. -It's-- it's unbelievable.
Look how incredibly--
-look how they identified that area. -Let's just pick
-Papoose Lake and fuck it up -Yeah, did you-- you saw that?
-so you can't see anything. -Yeah. So
-look at that. -[Lazar] Yeah. It's just S4.
[man] Exactly.
-[scoffs] -Isn't that something?
-Yeah. -So now their mistake
is that as we zoom into their washed out terrain
around the Papoose area and about-- and around S4,
their new filter, that they put in there
allows us to see...
-[Lazar] All right. Mm-hmm. -the tracks,
-which you couldn't see earlier. -[Lazar] Mm.
So now you have this incredibly clear--
[Lazar] Yeah, they say where no one ever drives, it's,
-it's to-- Yeah. -[man stutters] Yeah.
And so you even have on bordering the terrain area
and the actual dry lake,
if you get really close, you can
-[Lazar] Yeah, yeah. -actually see the tracks.
[Lazar] Yeah, well, yeah, we drove right along that dry lake.
That's unquestionably where we were.
[man] And so, interestingly,
we see the tracks, which are literally
-right by S4. -[Lazar] Yeah.
[man] And then if you go to this other road,
-see, there's a little road here. -[Lazar] Mm-hmm.
[man] Okay, which is very near S4 and we go here.
You can clearly see the tracks, look at them
-going in every direction, -[Lazar] Yeah, yeah.
and you-- look at all the-- the traffic.
-[Lazar] Yeah. -[man] Right?
[Lazar] Yeah, that's not one guy driving around.
[man] No, that's not one guy dri-- exactly, so...
[Lazar] Again, there's no public out there.
So, what are you doing? Yeah.
[man] This is Google Earth, so it's not like we're--
we're making this up. This is online.
Anybody can actually go there and actually do the timeline.
'Cause if I just click here on 2022...
Oop, just let me do that.
-There. There you go. -[Lazar] Yeah.
[man] It's-- it's back to normal.
And now you can actually see... the terrain.
Now we'll go into the more interesting part
where...
there's a series of photographs.
We already had gone through this, about a year ago.
And there was a person who had
flown into the restricted airspace out there
and had a very good quality camera on board
-Mm-hmm. -of his private plane,
and snapped about eight to 900 images
of Area 51, the Groom Lake facility,
Papoose mountain range, Papoose Lake and all that area.
And-- and did an incredible tour.
He even had the Nevada test site where there's all the craters
of all the bombs that blew up.
And there's this picture, that is publicly available.
It's been publicly available now for over five years.
And this is a picture that was taken at about 17 miles
from the Papoose Lake area,
where the hill is located, where
you said S4 was located.
Initially, the picture was utilized
by a whole bunch of people online saying,
"As you can see, whatever Bob Lazar said was untrue.
-There's nothing there." -Mm-hmm.
Obviously... the picture doesn't show anything.
Well, all you have to do is play with the contrast,
play with the-- the--
-the levels in the image. -Mm-hmm.
[man] And if you look carefully
in this version here, where it's--
the contrast has been changed,
the-- as we zoom...
-...look what you see. -[Lazar] Yeah, you can start seeing, uh...
-[man] You see them clearly right there. -[Lazar] Yeah.
Yeah, the slanted rectangular doors, yeah.
[man] And what's really interesting about it
is that if you look carefully...
[Lazar] They're like they're-- I mean, they're made
to not be visible.
-Yeah. -So yeah, you wouldn't expect them,
on a normal photo to show up.
I mean, they're trying to hide them from satellite photos.
So, but, um, yeah, this seems to be an effective way
of bringing that resolution out.
[man] And if you look carefully,
the first one is slightly wider.
-Oh, that's a good point. That's a big hangar. -Then, that's--
Yeah. Hey, that's a really good point.
-Look at that. -Yeah, you can actually see it.
-Yeah. -Look at the difference
between the-- the first one
and the second and the third.
-Yeah! I've never seen that. -Yeah.
-Yeah. That's-- That's pretty cool. -Yeah.
So it doesn't provide the world evidence that
there were flying saucers there
-or it doesn't say-- -No, of course not.
Yeah. But it-- it is incredibly interesting
that the image shows pretty much exactly what you had said
-[Lazar] Mm-hmm. -in 1989.
And if you hadn't been there, and you hadn't seen that,
then you predicted something that was pretty amazing.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you could say that about a lot of stuff.
I said-- yeah, yeah, right.
Everything I say just happens to be the way it is.
But, uh, yeah, that's-- that's fascinating.
[reflective music]
[music fades]
[engine roaring]
[sharp bang]
[Lazar] The second time I went out to the site,
the bus, as it arrived at the S4 facility
did not make the left turn and slowed down.
It stopped in front of the hill.
And when I got out of the bus and walked around to the front,
I can see a full view of where we were working.
And this time I can see there was a large hangar door open
in the side of the hill.
Inside the hangar door... was...
the sport model, the flying saucer.
[eerie synth music]
[music fades]
The first thing that went through my mind is,
"Well, this explains all the silly UFO reports
where we are making a secret fighter
that's in the shape of a flying saucer.
And... that's all there is to it."
We walked into the hangar and I was instructed to walk
with my eyes forward and
just enter the door at the end of the hangar.
I slid my hand along the side of the craft,
got reprimanded right away for doing that.
But the craft itself had a part of the hatch was removed, or...
I guess it's the entire hatch.
And you could see right next to the hatch,
there was a backwards American flag stuck on there.
Again, that kind of cemented into my mind,
"Well, this is an American product."
Why they put the backwards American flag
on there, I'll never know.
But, um, anyway, we continued in
and, uh, I went into the lab from there.
But that was the first time I ever had contact with the craft.
[suspenseful music]
[otherworldly hum]
Barry was showing me how, uh,
the field comes out of the emitter
and what it can do.
And he took a regular kitchen candle,
lit it, and he put it near the mouth
of the, uh-- the emitter.
And...
when he rotated the emitter...
...the flame stopped flickering.
It just stood like it was a photograph of itself.
Barry said, you know,
"What do you think is unusual about that?"
I said, "Aside from the fact the candle's not moving anymore?"
And he said, "Just think about it."
I said, "Yeah, it's still
emitting light, and it's not moving.
So the photons are still moving."
But again, if it's a gravity wave
coming out of there, gravity bends light.
It should look distorted.
I should-- I should either not be able to see it
or the whole image of it gets bent or distorted, but,
how can the flame stop moving
and it still be emitting light without any distortion?
So, these are some of the things that really made me think,
"It's not a gravity wave.
There's something else 'cause it's not behaving
exactly like that."
So-- and also he removed the candle
and then rotated the emitter.
I don't know if it was another direction
or more of the same way,
but it made a little black ball in the air
where no light was esca-- escaping,
looking like a little black hole.
But no, you could just tell there was no light
at the focal point, right in the air.
It was just, uh, a dark area.
So there it's affecting light,
but it wasn't in the candle test before that.
So, it-- [stutters]
it's a really unusual, unusual thing.
One time in particular that we got somewhat mischievous,
we had a reactor operating and the field
that develops around it is somewhat elastic.
So, you can take and try and
push on the hemisphere with your hands and you can't--
can't touch it. It repels like--
like poles of a magnet, but somewhat elastic.
So, to demonstrate this, Barry had a golf ball.
He threw it at the reactor, and it didn't hit it.
It rebounded off and then knocked the ceiling tile loose,
which we immediately panicked
because we knew Dennis was coming back in.
So we had to scramble to replace the ceiling tile and
clean up all the little fragments of
particles that dislodged from it.
I heard it a couple times "Meet me in the big hangar."
And I don't remember if it was Dennis or Barry
that also referred to where the sport model was.
That hangar was the big hangar.
The hangar that housed the sport model
was like a typical airplane hangar
with the exception of the angled
doors that I mentioned before.
This hangar was equipped with typical tools
and extensive electronic equipment.
It also had a machine with an X-ray emblem on it
and an overhead crane rated at 20,000 pounds.
Equipment in this hangar was marked with a black number 41
with a white circle around it.
Well, the hangar was lit by mercury vapor lights.
I don't-- cone-shaped lights.
There was a countless number of them on the ceiling.
Um, in addition to those, there were, uh, tripod halogen lights,
dual head halogen lights set up.
And those really provided a lot of bright light
for working close up and,
uh... [stutters] those were a lot more
useful than the overhead lights.
I had at least partial views
of the nine different discs out at S4.
But the one I'm going to describe to you now
is the one in which I not only saw
two of the three interior levels,
but I also saw it fully functional in flight.
This particular disc appeared to be in excellent condition.
And because of its sleek appearance,
I nicknamed it "The sport model."
Now, previously I had estimated the sport model to be
about 15 feet high and about 40 feet wide.
But since then I've enlisted some expert help
from the field of computer imaging.
And together we've scaled the disc up
from the size of components which I had a close look at
and could accurately establish their actual size.
From this analysis I'm now presenting to you
the most accurate information I can convey
regarding the disc's physical structure.
The sport model is 16 feet tall
and 52 feet 9 inches in diameter.
The exterior skin of the disc is metal,
which is the color of unpolished stainless steel.
The sport model sits on its belly when it's not energized
and not the stereotypical tripod legs
that folklore usually associates with this type of craft.
As you can see the entry hatch
is located on the upper half of the disc
with just the bottom portion of the door
wrapping around the center lip of the disc.
The interior of the disc is divided into three levels.
The lower level is where the three gravity emitters
and their wave guides are located.
These are the integral components
of the propulsion system
that are used to amplify and focus the gravity "A" wave.
The reactor is located directly above the three gravity emitters
on the center level, and is in fact, centered between them.
The center level of the disc houses the amplifier heads
as well as the seats which were too small and
too low to the floor to be functional
for adult human beings.
The walls of the center level are all
divided into archways.
At one point in time when the disc was energized
one of the archways became transparent
and you could see the area outside of it,
just as if the archway was a window.
Then a form of writing,
which was unlike any alphabetic, scientific,
or mathematical symbols I've ever seen,
began to appear on one side of the transparent archway.
I was never given access to the upper level of the disc
so I can't enlighten you as to what the porthole-like areas are
other than that, I can assure you, they're not portholes.
Any time... I was in the big hangar
my eyes were always focused right on the sport model.
There could have been fires going on on either side of me
and I would still have been looking at it.
It-- It was that captivating.
When I was close to the sport model,
I really focused on the skin of the craft.
What it looked like, how it changed, the color.
It has a small antenna looking device which is actually
a waveguide, that protrudes from the top.
It is like a pewter gray in color.
It appears to be metal.
I felt it. It's cold.
It may not be. It might be some advanced ceramic of some type.
So the body of the craft had ripples.
The-- one of them we call the insulation ring.
It was a dark black color.
The only thing on the outside
that was a different color than the craft.
We call it the insulation ring because
when the craft is in operation
there is a high voltage detectable on--
on the skin of the craft,
but that high voltage is not present above that ring.
The upper part of the craft above the insulation ring
were what we call the planar arrays.
Flat window-looking, porthole-looking openings in the craft.
They-- they were unusually dark.
Really dark. Almost looked like holes, although there weren't.
It was theorized that they were used to determine the craft's
location in space.
Each one of them, looking out in space
apparently looking at star positions or whatever e--
energy or light it uses to locate its place.
Each one looking in a different direction and then
some sort of computer, uh,
in the upper level that takes that data
and figures out its location.
Again, I may be completely wrong,
or the people that came up with that may be completely wrong
but I would agree with that just looking at it, that--
that it has to be something along those lines.
I walked up to the stairs
that led to the entrance of the craft.
I remember, climbing the stairs, how excited I was,
to finally get to see what's inside the craft.
When I got to the top of the stairs I can clearly see
the reversed American flag to my left.
The hatchway is fairly small and I put
my hands on both sides of it to bend down to go inside
and when I did, my hand was near
the reversed American flag so I noticed the exact size,
it was just a little more than a span, a little more than
you know, as far as my fingers stretched
and I glanced down and looked at the security guard
who was staring at me and just kind of gave him a smile,
and, you know, proceeded into the craft.
[ominous, sci-fi music]
I was shocked at how sparse the inside of the craft was.
Everything was the same color, the same texture,
and it all appeared to be the same material.
Virtually everything had a radius of curvature to it
and everything looked like it was molded together,
with the exception of the reactor.
Even though there were two tripod lights set up
inside the craft, it was still very dark.
I've often described the interior of the craft
as being very ominous.
I got to look inside and it had
really small chairs and I think that was the first...
...confirmation I had, that was just a shocking thing
because it-- every time before that I was able to label it
"Well this is just...
...oh, a little advance that a group of
scientists had formed and, you know, they're
keeping it secret" and, "Yeah, we could have built
a big disc like that, that's no problem and
you know, we could have adapted these to make it fly," but...
...why does it have little furniture inside?
Essentially a little seat and now and it--
And things began to click together just all too fast.
I was in there with my lab partner Barry
and there was also another team working elsewhere in the craft.
While going over the reactor placement
Barry drew my attention to the archways
that all surrounded the interior of the craft
explaining they were hollow, and actually waveguides.
The waveguide, which...
terminates, is the antenna looking object from the top.
Yeah, that kind of folds down on itself so it
extends and retracts and that sits on the top of the reactor
that essentially channels the gravity wave up there
and into the superstructure around the craft
so it's dispersed evenly.
While we were working next to the reactor
I got a really good look at the three seats
or what we assumed to be seats,
that were far too small to be usable by an adult human.
You know, if you look at the seats
what I call the seats, the placement,
one of them, the waveguide in the reactor
is directly in front of a seat.
-[mumbles] -Why would you ever do that?
I mean, either... [chuckles] the guy that sits in that seat
-is on reactor watch and he just sits there and -[chuckles]
makes sure everything runs the all but...
it doesn't make any-- and that's the only one
that faces directly at the panel that became transparent.
While we were working on the reactor
I saw one of the archways become completely transparent,
where I could see outside the craft.
This immediately caught my attention
and as I focused on it
half that archway turned an opaque blue,
and black symbols began to appear
on that blue portion of the archway.
I'd never really seen symbols like that before,
but my closest analogy to it
would be... Korean writing.
The symbols themselves were not completely static.
They were slowly tilting back and forth.
While that archway had my attention, my lab partner Barry
whispered my name to me
to get my attention back to where it belonged.
When I was in the craft... and
I was kneeling down by the reactor and looked up at
the screen, Barry just said,
"Bob, Bob,"
you know, like, "What are you doing?"
"That's not you," you know, "look down here,"
which is what broke my attention, to go there.
But yeah, and-- but when he-- my point was when he said it,
he-- he just kind of whispered it.
It's like-- it's like you're in a library,
-you know, so there's no-- -[interviewer] Mm.
no loud talking. "Hey Bill,
get me--" you know, it's just like...
[whispering mumbles]
So, I don't know the reasoning behind that, but you know,
it's-- it's like a library.
I can see that the craft had been worked on before
and probably for quite some time.
One of the amplifiers had been cut out with a plasma cutter.
Other teams were working on the skin of the craft,
and there were lights, extension cords, and other equipment
that were all over the inside of the craft.
[interviewer] You had noticed that one of the amplifiers
had been cut out of the craft.
Yeah.
[interviewer] You know, you said
"They must have really been sure."
You had to been a hundred percent confident,
that... you weren't gonna ruin the operation of anything
if you went to the lenghts to remove
an entire amplifier out of the craft.
Now... look,
once you remove that out,
the craft can't operate in-- in Delta mode anymore,
which makes you wonder if they did that...
intentionally, so it couldn't operate in that mode, you know,
kind of the equivalent of clipping a bird's wings,
keeping it, you know, so it
can't fly away anywhere.
Somewhere, someone, and probably certainly more than one person,
uh, a group of people agreed that,
"Let's go take that out,"
and they had a damn good reason to do it.
But they must have been absolutely convinced,
they knew what was going on. Removed it.
Moved it into the lab,
and they were still able to operate the craft without it.
So, that uh-- clearly a lot went on before I got there.
At one point, Barry instructed me to go behind the seats
and pointed towards a small
honeycombed hatchway, flush with the floor.
We both crawled over to the hatchway,
and Barry showed me where to put my finger in and pull backwards,
and... the little honeycombed hatchway collapsed,
leaving an opening in the floor,
big enough to barely squeeze through,
and look down into the lower level.
I was able to get the upper part of my body into the hatchway,
and got a good view of the three emitters, hanging below.
The lower level was very dark.
There was just enough light coming in,
under the entrance hatchway, to see the emitters
and the lower part of the craft.
The emitters were the only things that were
a-- a different color.
They were black.
The bottoms of them... were hollow
and you could see
some sort of copper colored plates inside there.
They were hung by large diameter tubes,
maybe three inches or so,
just like the waveguide
that extends down onto the reactor.
When all three of the amplifiers are being used for travel,
they're in the Delta configuration.
And when only one is being used for travel,
it's in the Omicron configuration.
So as far as propulsion,
the craft operates in two different modes,
called Omicron and Delta.
Omicron meaning one and Delta meaning three,
and that's referring to how many of the amplifiers and
emitters are being used.
So in Omicron configuration, the craft lifts off the ground
using one amplifier and one emitter.
The other two emitters can swing all the way up to
180 degrees out the side of the craft,
and what that does is cause distortion
in space and kind of forces the craft
to fall into that distortion.
Kind of the opposite of the way our aircraft work.
Instead of throwing material out the back,
this causes some sort of distortion
in front of it, where it's drawn into.
[soft eerie music]
The other mode of operation, Delta configuration,
is really used when the craft is outside the atmosphere
where it's sitting in free space.
In that mode, the craft rotates on its side.
It does a belly roll, and faces the bottom of the craft
towards the destination.
The three emitters, in the bottom of the craft,
focus on the destination.
They're brought up to power and the craft makes a jump.
Now, the amplifiers don't operate on a continuous fashion.
They pulse.
They produce a pulse of energy
and then require a recycle time.
It's somewhere around 10 milliseconds
or something like that,
but... then they essentially can fire again
and make another jump.
So, in traveling to
a distant location,
the craft will make several jumps.
It's never just one long jump, you know,
across the galaxy or something like that.
It's just a series of jumps and that's--
that's how it moves.
When it arrives to where it is,
it'll get close to the destination,
switch over to Omicron mode,
and... set down or cruise around or whatever its plan was.
[suspenseful music]
As I went through the other folders, there was, uh,
another project called Sidekick, which dealt
with any weapon potential of this spacecraft.
That was w-- weapons applications,
and I knew a little bit more about that.
That was because the-- the gravity amplifiers were used
as a-- a collimating device to-- I mean, to-- to narrow the beam
of something that appeared to be like a particle weapon.
And it seemed to be dealing with an accelerated particle
of some kind that was focused or held in place,
and prevented from dispersing by the gravity amplifiers,
by the emitters, actually.
Project Looking Glass had to do with using the...
gravity amplifiers to distort time.
And, you know, th-- this isn't implying that
they were trying to make a time machine,
but they were trying to create a time differential,
whether it was in milliseconds or fractions of a second.
But it had-- it had to do just with...
...that force distorting time.
Now, I mean, we weren't a 100% sure that...
that was even gravity what we were dealing with.
But anyway, the group that was working on that was
attempting to see if that can distort the flow of time.
The information in the overview of Project Galileo was accurate.
I read the overview and later witnessed evidence
which proved it to be accurate.
So it is possible that
scientists involved with other projects,
could have seen evidence that these
other overviews were accurate.
But I can't make that assertion.
To me, these reports were simply words and pictures on paper.
[sharp bang]
The hangars are all connected together
and there are large bay doors between each one.
And, uh, there were nine total that I saw.
Uh, each one being different.
I was in the lab with Barry and Dennis came in and said,
"We're conducting a test flight, why don't you guys come out?"
We left the lab through the side door,
which leads directly into the-- the large hangar.
And when I opened the door,
all the doors between the hangars were open.
And I looked down and I saw how big the installation was
and that there were other craft,
in those other hangars.
I couldn't see very far because they weren't well lit,
but it did go on for quite a ways.
In the hanger adjacent to the sport model was another craft
that sometimes I refer to as the
jello mold or the-- the bundt cake.
It looks like a bundt cake mold without the hole in the middle.
It appeared to be made of the same material
as the sport model, same color, same sheen.
I couldn't see much going on with it.
Again, this was just a single glance.
The other craft looked like a top hat or a straw hat,
straw carnival hat, uh, with a large brim on it.
This one, same color, same sheen,
apparently the same material,
also slightly smaller than the sport model.
But this one wasn't laying flat on the ground.
It was leaning on the wall.
And, what was interesting about this one,
it had a hole,
in the side of the brim, if you wanna call it that,
as if it was shot from underneath with a projectile,
'cause you could see some of the metal bent outward.
The craft was already outside of the hangar.
There were some researchers and some other security personnel
standing at the opening to the hangar.
Everybody was looking at the craft.
There was, uh, what appeared to be a VHF radio
because what caught my attention was
they were in communication with someone in the craft
and... they were using a conventional
VHF radio... to talk to them.
And I believe it was in the 140 or 150 megahertz bandwidth
because it said right on the radio.
And knowing how the craft worked,
it would be impossible for it to receive
a radio signal through the gravitational field.
I mean, it even-- it bends light around it.
There's no way a radio wave is getting inside the craft,
yet they were talking, uh, to it.
So I was really perplexed by that
and for a minute just focused on that
and looked at the craft and wondered,
"You know, obviously there's something I'm not getting here."
Dennis instructed me to go out and I stopped,
looked at the craft that was sitting on there and
began to lift off the ground silently.
There was a little hiss from a corona discharge,
kind of a bluish purplish glow at the bottom,
uh, which dissipated as it took off.
Once it was sitting in the air,
Dennis instructed me to go further.
And I went out.
I didn't look up. I was just
walking forward and then looked up under the craft
and I looked back at--
at Dennis and he motioned me to come back.
And I started walking back.
I saw his hand go up...
...and he set the indicators for me to look up and I looked up,
and the craft wasn't there.
And I looked over at Dennis
and he-- he s-- he motioned for me to go-- go back
and I-- I looked and as I moved forward,
the craft comes into view.
So you-- you could actually see the photons bending around
the gravitational envelope the-- of the craft.
You can see the sky above the craft
bending and as you walk by, it comes into view
and then out of view. It's really--
It's-- It really leaves an impression.
It's a pretty impressive thing to see.
[music fades]
The hope was ...that...
...even something small and insignificant,
what we would think is insignificant,
but something small that we can grasp,
if we really understood it...
...as opposed to a big, complicated--
you know, like the entire propulsion system.
But if you can find a single piece and...
just understood exactly how that worked and how
their science works, that that would be the key
and it would-- the rest would all fall down like dominoes.
Like, "Oh, we-- we got it."
You know, it's like... [chuckles]
You know, I have an understanding of transistor
and then, "Oh, that's how-- and a group of these makes an
integrated circuit and then an array of these
and it's in the memory and computer, I would--
We got it. It's-- It's done."
So we were hoping for that chain reaction to take place.
Maybe it has, but, um, you know, when I was there, it was just--
we wanna focus on some small
aspects of it, and see what happens.
Right, they had a poster and it looked like a
commercial poster almost, like it was lithographed
and you could buy it at a K-mart or something,
but they were all over the place and it had the--
the disk that I coined the term, the sport model
was lifted off the ground about three feet at-- at, uh, area S4
on the dry lake there, and, uh,
the caption on the bottom said, "They're here."
Looked like a commercially printed poster
with the sport model above the desert
floor that said, "They're here" on it.
I-- I can't fathom why they did that.
Or for-- Or where they did it,
but... it was there. It was there.
Somebody made it, "They're here" poster.
You know, I even-- I went up to it and stopped and walked back
and looked at it and felt it.
And it was just-- it was just a poster.
And I-- I st-- to this day, I can't imagine why
they did that, but I wish I had one.
[laughs] They were-- They were pretty cool.
This technology that you've learned about thus far
was brought here by some alien beings
from the Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2 star system.
Zeta Reticuli is a binary star system,
which means it has two stars and is located
approximately 38 light years from Earth.
These beings are from Reticulum 4,
which is the fourth planet out from Zeta 2 Reticuli.
This is the way star systems
were referred to in these reports.
They simply designate the name of the star
and then number the planets from the nearest
to the furthest from the star.
Our star, the Sun, was designated as Sol,
and the Earth was referred to as Sol 3,
because we're the third planet out from the Sun.
These beings said that man was the product
of externally corrected evolution.
They said that man as a species
had been genetically altered 65 times.
They referred to humans as containers,
yet I don't know what we're containers of.
These beings said that they had been
visiting Earth for a long time
and presented photographic evidence
which they contended was
over 10,000 years old.
There was an exchange of hardware and information
in central Nevada until 1979,
at which time there was a conflict
which brought the program to an abrupt halt.
The beings left, but were to return at a 1623 date
and I don't know what that date is.
With the remaining hardware and information, the U.S. government
started the Back Engineering Program.
The parts that Bob read that he was
least willing to talk to me about, even back then,
that they had been involved with our-- our DNA,
with our evolution as a species,
that they've been tinkering along the way.
-That's pretty disturbing stuff. -[indistinct]
It-- It is disturbing stuff.
Gene Huff brings that up a lot.
I mean, I don't talk about it--
The main reason is because
when Barry and I did discuss about their reports,
he said, "Take everything with a grain of salt,
because they'll, you know, intentionally inject
ridiculous things in there.
So if anything ever gets out, they know exactly
who to track it back to."
There were references to, you know, beings
or pilots or
whatever, and it s-- some entities that were
related to the craft, but they were always
referred to as "the kids."
[ominous synth music]
[interviewer] In the documentation,
you saw some pictures of-- of some creature,
an autopsy of some type.
[Lazar] Yeah, I did. I saw, some sort--
if you even wanna call it some sort of autopsy report.
-I don't know what a normal -[interviewer] Yeah.
autopsy report looks like, but...
Yeah, it had to do with a-- a photograph and drawing of a
dead creature, with the chest cut open in a T fashion,
the skin peeled back, and what appeared to be one large
organ as opposed to a bunch of smaller ones, as if,
I believe I said it before,
as if all the organs in our body just grew together
and operated as one unit.
That's what it looked like.
And that's what it referred to.
The beings themselves are three to four feet tall
and weigh 25 to 50 pounds.
Their bodies would most closely resemble
a human toddler's torso,
if the child was emaciated from hunger.
They have grayish skin with large heads
with almond-shaped wraparound eyes.
They have very slight nose, mouth and ear positions
and are essentially hairless.
I believe I was leaving the hangar
and walked up and glanced through the window of one of the
other do-- doors as I was proceeding down the hallway.
And what I saw was
two technicians or scientists looking down
and had either one of the seats or a model of one of the seats
with what I thought was a doll,
like a small creature or something like that,
something that would be designed to fit.
And I think they were just sizing up
what kind of creature would sit in a seat that size.
From what I understood, there were Russians working there
right before I got to the project.
And apparently there was some big discovery made.
I-- I don't know what it had to do with
or what project it had to do with,
but it was a big deal.
And as soon as we found that out,
we stopped the Russians from working with us.
I mean, they were kicked out of sight and, uh...
whatever cooperation we had
going on came to an end. To me,
obviously Russia had something we needed.
They must have had some other...
ET information, um, some technology
maybe that was compatible with this.
Maybe they had some other craft or parts or some--
They had something that we wanted,
where we'd go to the in-- unbelievable length
of allowing them, not just the information,
but to be on site with us, so,
there-- there had to be a good reason to do that.
[ominous synth music]
Dennis instructed me one day that
I'd be taking a piece of element 115
to Los Alamos National Labs, in New Mexico.
I left on one of their planes from the test site
and while on the plane,
I was looking through the documentation
and that's where I noticed, that they had a code name for it.
It was LA-1000
and it was classified as a new armor material.
And that's all that the people at Los Alamos
were supposed to know, that they were just machining
an armor material.
So I had to remain there,
while they were machining the material
and return, with not just the material,
but any waste material or shavings back to S4.
The strange thing is how it was packed.
It was packed in aerogel.
At the time, I had never seen aerogel.
I had never heard of aerogel.
It's... essentially silicon dioxide.
It's-- It's the lightest known solid.
It's 98% air.
Why it was packed in this material, I have no idea.
This contained-- had a cutout for the 115 in it,
and then that was inside of a lead case.
I can't explain why it was packed that way at all.
[ominous sci-fi music]
[interviewer] You went public in the 1980s
and even in the interview with George, you said you
had a piece of element 115 in a puck
with an X on it, or a plus on it
with a laser pointed at it.
Now, that was something that you could have said,
"Yeah, I got a piece of plutonium in my pocket."
-You know... and it's not true. -[Lazar] Yeah.
-[interviewer] You know what I mean? -[Lazar] Right.
[interviewer] Because you did say you had a piece back then
-and then you never said it again. -[Lazar] Yeah.
[interviewer] But you stopped saying it
because it was just like, just--
[Lazar] Yeah, I stopped saying it because, yeah,
I had it too close to me.
Bob made sure to have the, uh--
the gel stuff in a beaker and back.
-[interviewer] Yeah, aero-- the aerogel. -Aerogel.
[interviewer] It was something like pointing the
particle accelerator
at the 115 in a pocket,
[indistinct] with a target on it.
-Yeah. -[interviewer indistinct]
-[laughing] -Yeah.
-[interviewer indistinct] -That was real.
That was real.
I know 115 doesn't exist
and a stable form of it is non-existent and nobody's ever
seen it and the only wispy piece of it that we've got now,
it only lasts microseconds
and then it's gone, and it's radioactive.
Nothing like the stable form
that, uh, he describes has been found by humans.
But he had a piece of it and I don't care
whether people believe it or not, he did.
And I saw an experiment at his house, uh,
with a cloud chamber that seemed to bend light.
Now, I'm not a physicist, but it looked like it was
bending light to me and that was impressive.
I know that when Bob thought he was gonna die,
that he was gonna be killed and there was good reason
for him thinking that.
He had that piece of 115 in this
pewter round disc thing
in front of his particle accelerator
with an X in the middle and if he was gonna go,
they were going with him.
I became concerned as the days went on.
There were always cars parked across from my driveway,
and normally there's nothing there.
There's no traffic
and even driving places,
I was always being followed.
Even when my friend and I went to the gym,
even he noticed wherever we stopped,
a car would follow us anywhere.
I began to get a little concerned and
took a few of my closest friends, and told them,
"The job I had at the test site,
I want you to see what's going on."
Working with Barry, it became obvious
he had something to do with
the test flight schedule.
And in-- on one occasion, he was sitting across from me
and had a list of the test flights, the dates,
the duration, and-- and exactly what was going on.
I saw him working on it and read it upside down,
seeing that every day was a Wednesday.
And I asked him what it was, he said
it was the test flight schedule.
And I said, "What's with Wednesday?"
And he mentioned that Wednesday was-- statistically,
was the least amount of traffic
on the adjacent highway to the test site.
So there'd be the least number of eyes
when they were testing the craft.
So I knew when one of the test flights was.
On a Wednesday night, gathered everyone together,
we went out there, and exactly at the prescribed time,
the craft rose up over the ridge of mountains.
Everyone got to see it maneuver and perform
and basically told everybody what I was doing.
We rented a car, took my wife, a few friends, and
drove out to this-- this place and...
turned the lights out and snuck into a little area, and, uh--
uh, we all watched it.
A month before he ever took us out there, you know,
they had him at arm's length not calling him back to work
and he was suspicious about it.
You know, I knew what he was doing and--
and I was looking at all the...
history, what happened in Russia and the United States.
I said, "Man, I wanna be where it's happening right now."
Bob says, "What are you doing on Wednesday night?"
I go, "Nothing," because he knows
they're testing on Wednesday night.
Well, my name's Gene Huff.
I'm a real estate appraiser.
I've lived in Las Vegas for 44 years.
Been a real estate appraiser about 40 years of that.
You know, for-- for someone just watching this who doesn't know,
I'm sure they-- for them to believe what I'm going to say,
they wanna know something about me.
I've never been arrested
or convicted of any crime.
I've been a real estate appraiser for 40 years.
There's never been one complaint against me.
So as just a normal citizen, I'd say I'm pretty upstanding.
I have had speeding tickets in the past, though.
That's-- that's about my biggest crime.
[Lazar] Gene Huff was the person at the time, that I confided in
almost on a daily basis.
When I came back from S4,
I would tell Gene kind of what happened.
You know, I was really concerned about talking to anybody else.
And I just-- you know, I picked Gene,
who was the closest friend at that time in Las Vegas.
[Gene] When he took us out there, we went in Lear's RV.
It was Bob and his wife and Lear and me and, uh--
We saw what we could later identify
as a flying disc because it has...
novel movements in the sky.
Helicopters and blimps and airplanes don't do this.
You know, it-- it can float around very softly
and then dart up here and then be here.
And then you wouldn't even see it move.
And now it's down here.
It moved around. It did a step move.
It actually went up in the air like this and hovered,
then dropped way down.
Then it just floated around and cruised around.
And then it started coming up the mountain range.
But again, I couldn't have said that was a flying saucer.
It was an anomalous thing.
And-- and of course, Bob said there's a static charge
that dances around on the skin of the disc.
And as the disc gets further powered up,
the brighter this discharge is.
When the craft is energized, there's a-- a high DC voltage on it.
That's just always present there.
We knew there was high voltage visually
when the craft takes off, but it-- that it just appears to be
a byproduct of the way the reactor's working.
So anyway, we did see, you know, jumping around and Lear
had a good shot at it through-- through a telescope.
Good evening. This is John Lear.
And today is March 22nd, 1989.
We're standing just about, uh, eight miles due east of
Groom Lake, Nevada, the super government, uh, secret test site.
And just a few minutes ago, we saw one of the government,
uh, extraterrestrial UFOs fly over there.
Uh, we all watched it for about, uh,
[clears throat] seven or eight minutes.
Right here, I have my Celestron scope.
Uh, it's eight, uh, inches.
And I had, uh-- I had it focused in for about 15 seconds
and saw for myself that in fact, it was a disc.
[clears throat] We're going to, uh, stay here for another
couple hours here to see if we can show you folks,
uh, an actual, uh, extraterrestrial flying saucer
being, uh, flown by the government.
[tape rolling]
[man] Okay, good luck.
[static]
[man 2] No way, did you see that move it did?
-[man] No, I didn't. -[man 2] It was like--
it kept going, woo woo.
-Wow, look how bright it's getting. -[man] Look at it now.
-[man 2] It's getting bright. -[man] Not bright enough for me to get the time of day.
[man 3] Hey, hold on right here.
So is this the first time on camera we're gonna talk about
what we actually saw the
second time out there, me and you and Jim?
-[Lazar] Yeah. Yeah. -Okay.
So this is going to be the exposure.
-[Lazar] Yeah. That's right. -You're gonna be the first one to get this.
Two weeks later, he takes us out there.
This must be... [stutters] April, whatever it was.
And it's Jim Togliani, Bob, his wifey and me.
This time, we see the elliptical shaped light down
by the mountains, which would be the south of us.
And there it is. And we can tell that,
"Look, we've seen it before."
And then without seeing it move at all,
suddenly it's halfway between us and the mountain range.
And then suddenly it's much closer to us.
I'd say 75 yards away and 150 feet up in the air, maybe.
During the test flight, when the craft rose up,
it made very abrupt moves to the left and right,
and then, made a very dramatic move toward us.
And I remember Gene Huff looking at it,
even took a step back going,
"Oh my God," because it just--
it came from such a great distance to so close so quickly.
Did that a couple of times. I mean, to the point
it glowed extremely bright when it did it.
In fact, so much so they backed up behind the car
because they thought it might explode or something.
So now after it jumps down close to us,
it starts glowing brighter and brighter and brighter.
And then what we never told anybody until now,
it disappeared.
[soft ominous music]
Now, this is all silent, by the way, there's no noise.
And it was just gone.
Now, we did later see it floating around
and go back down by the mountains, by Papoose and...
it's like a-- like the movies,
it drops down behind the mountains.
[sci-fi sting]
This was a thing that Bob could not effect.
He had no idea that there was gonna be a disk
out by way 375 that would come that close to us,
power up and disappear for all practical purposes.
He couldn't have made that happen unless he was
in cahoots with somebody at S4.
But even then, they wouldn't have known
where we were and when we were there, and--
I still pose the question, is, "Did they see us?"
Bob couldn't have been working at--
at the lunchroom at Area 51.
And I just believe everything he says,
and this would have happened.
He couldn't make it happen.
That proved, and I believed it before that, but that proved,
uh, that's empirical evidence.
I saw a craft to do that, thanks to him.
And it can't be denied,
but that's presuming they believe me.
We got caught out there.
Uh, there were--
we got stopped by-- initially by the guards
that are out in that area, uh, that
John Lear spoke about. He was with us.
Then stopped right afterwards by the sheriff who...
...I guess, called in all our names
from our driver's licenses and social security numbers,
whatever they do, into Area 51 out there.
Yeah, we went out there two or three times.
So we'd go out there in the dark
and you can't see your hand in front of your face.
And we'd pull out there, stand around.
And we're-- the first time we were as quiet as possible.
By the second or third time,
we were making noise and joking around and...
unbeknownst to us, they had seen us pull up there.
We're going down the first road in the Area 51.
We just went there to park to see
if we could see what was going on.
Then the Wackenhut guards, who are the guys that guard
the outside of the base, were watching us.
But we-- we didn't know it.
We're out there with a telescope and
video cameras, and...
You know, Bob points out that there's a
green light down there on the road.
And then the green light dropped from, like,
head level down to the ground.
And we realized those were night vision goggles.
And somebody just dropped their
night vision goggles and we saw it.
There was five or six security personnel there.
And one of them dropped a night vision scope.
And we just saw it rolling down the road to us going,
"What is that?"
And then when they saw they dropped it,
they turned the lights on, and...
everyone was there.
There were cars and a lot of guys.
So it was, uh-- it was very shocking.
But yeah, that's when we got discovered.
You know, the consensus was, if they find me,
there's gonna be big trouble.
So if I take off into the desert,
they're just gonna look like
a bunch of tourists that are out there.
So I ran out into the desert.
They got caught.
Everybody got questioned.
They eventually let them go.
There were four people there.
And then on their way out,
before they got to the main road,
I joined up with them, got back in the car.
We continued on and then
were stopped by the local sheriff.
And the sheriff called it in and he said,
"Yeah, I got five people here," and Wackenhut said,
"Well, there were only four there.
Where'd you get the other guy?"
So he asked for everybody's ID and we gave it to him.
So that's how they found out that I was there.
As soon as they mentioned my name, from what I recall,
they just said, "Okay," and they let everybody go.
And that's how--
[chuckling] That's how it went. Yeah.
[phone ringing]
Dennis contacted me in the morning and said,
"Instead of going into S4,
uh, we're gonna go to Indian Springs,"
which was an auxiliary air force base,
you know, in that general area, part of the test site.
So we went... to Indian Springs that morning.
And, uh, that's where I was debriefed and interrogated.
Literally said two or three words the entire trip.
It's like a half hour, 45 minute drive.
The only thing he did say on the way down there was,
"You know, when we said this was highly classified,
we didn't mean that you can tell
your friends and family about it."
And that was, I think, the only thing he said.
There was someone at the guard station to let us in,
and then someone in the building and...
he left after that.
Guards there with M-16s and guys
slamming their finger into my chest, screaming in my ear.
Some people were pointing weapons at me.
There were a couple of guys in the room
that they sat me down with.
Um, and they were more angry than anything else.
I don't think they exactly knew what to say,
but they kept going over.
"Didn't you understand the security briefings?"
And you know, one of the guys had a sidearm, a rifle,
um, that he kept poking me with.
We had a story all made up why I was out there
about me being dropped off at the stop sign up on--
up on the top of the hill and that I really didn't
go out there and I didn't wanna and all that.
And the first thing that they said when I got in,
uh, was, "Forget about the stop sign story."
And we only talked about that on the phone.
And it was just all too obvious that the phone was tapped.
And eventually they brought up the fact that they said,
"You know, we've been monitoring your phone
and, uh, we've been reviewing your--
you know, your clearance
and there've been some problems with it.
Your wife's been having an affair with your--
her flight instructor and here's the transcripts."
And, you know, they just kind of explained it,
opened a couple places and was reading stuff into me,
some particularly unpleasant areas.
And, um... I kind of put most of this out of my mind.
They let me go after that.
And I think they were gonna yank the clearance
anyway, because of what was going on.
They were simply waiting to see if it was something
that was gonna fizzle out or not.
And apparently it wasn't.
It's something I don't like to talk about.
It's upsetting... and it, um...
you know, it's probably the least of what I remember
about the entire situation.
And that was essentially the last day that I had ever worked.
But yeah, they were--
upset was...
...an understatement.
[interviewer] They shot at you, somebody shot,
maybe as a warning, perhaps.
That's a good warning, I had my back tire shot out on my car
as I was getting on the freeway.
I was dropping some real estate photos off at Gene Huff's office
on Eastern Avenue in Las Vegas.
And I drove down, Charleston Boulevard went
completely across the valley.
And just as I was heading back,
heading toward the freeway on-ramp,
another car kept
running up beside me.
And, you know, they'd fall back,
I'd move forward, they'd fall back.
I thought it was some kid trying to race me.
And they shot, they fired it.
They weren't-- They weren't trying to race me.
They were trying to shoot me.
They shot and hit the back tire,
uh, where Charleston Boulevard
curves-- the on-ramp that goes on to I-15.
There's, uh, a big dirt area.
So instead of following the turn,
I went straight into the dirt and stopped
and was kind of petrified and just froze there in the car
because I thought they had pulled up behind me
and I was waiting to get shot.
And I just sat there for a long period of time and realized
they had kept going.
So I kind of relaxed.
I went out and looked at the tire
and I didn't have a spare.
I just got back in the car and started driving up the on-ramp,
of course, you know, with a shot-out tire.
You know, was it somebody from the government?
Was it a random shooting?
Was it a gangbanger?
I-- I don't know.
But that-- that happened at that time.
[interviewer] But you said, uh,
you were referred to getting into trouble.
Have you had some repercussions?
[Lazar] Yeah, I've been threatened with, uh--
uh, being charged with espionage.
Uh, I've had my life threatened by them,
my wife's life threatened by them.
And, uh, I-- I mean, I don't know where else you can go from there.
I, at that time, you know, had people following me,
was beginning to get scared and at some point stayed at
John Lear's house and, you know,
was kind of hiding from what was going on.
And he said, "Look, I know this guy, George Knapp.
He's, uh... you know, part of KLAS-TV.
He's an investigative reporter.
What you should do, you should say all this stuff,
get it on the record.
Like that way, if anything happens to you,
it's just gonna explode.
And the-- you know, maybe they'll leave you alone."
And, you know, initially that sounded ridiculous.
And eventually I said, "I gotta do something.
So... okay."
So, um,
they came up to the house
and in John Lear's driveway,
we did that Dennis interview.
[suspenseful music]
George Knapp attached the name to Dennis to me.
That was my superior at the time.
It was kind of a poke in the eye to him.
I had heard about Bob in 1988.
Um, this guy, John Lear walks into the TV station in 1987.
He had a stack of documents
and he pushed them across the desk
to a guy named Ned Day.
Ned had broken a big story about Area 51.
He and Bob Snowdall got this tip from Lear and his associates
that there was a secret plane
being developed in the Nevada desert.
Something that was invisible to radar,
which sounded preposterous at the time,
but turned out to be true.
Lear had credibility with KLAS because
he had given us information that turned out to be
this really big story.
It was John Lear that introduced me
to George Knapp and...
John Lear was one of the first people that I spoke to.
Actually, I think it was Gene Huff, but John Lear had
a lot of connections and
familiar with a lot of,
Area 51 stories and that sort of thing, so.
He was an unusual guy, but a good friend
and had some, you know, strange beliefs.
But he did direct me to, uh, George Knapp.
And, uh, that was an important-- an important meeting.
I'm the anchor of the five o'clock newscast.
And every night we would have a
five-minute live interview segment.
It might be a local celebrity, a comedian,
an entertainer, a politician,
somebody interesting who was traveling through town.
And I remember the day that it happened.
It's in May of-- of 1989.
Whoever our guest was, canceled.
We're scrambling to figure out who we're gonna fill
this five-minute hole with.
And I thought about Lear. Lear said he knew this guy.
It might work out there. I had no idea who Bob was.
I had no idea what had been going on in his life.
And so, I called up Lear and said,
"Hey, you said your-- this guy might--
your flying saucer guy,
uh, might get a job out there.
You think he'd talk to us?"
And Lear says, "I'll get back to you."
He calls back a couple minutes later.
"Yeah, he'll do it."
George sent over his cameraman.
His name was Frank, in a van, and
they set Bob up in silhouette inside the van.
He told the story, you know.
There were nine flying
disks-- flying saucers, and-- and told the story.
And, uh-- And then it hit the news and, man,
did their newsroom go crazy.
We send a live unit up to Lear's house.
Uh, they arrange this interview.
We have to block out this guy's identity.
We have to put him in silhouette.
He used a pseudonym, Dennis.
Weren't exactly sure what he was gonna say,
uh, but we started asking him some generic questions
in our five o'clock newscast and out this story spills
and the world changed.
[Lazar] Uh, there's really no way I can prove it
without revealing my identity and getting myself
into more trouble than I have already.
[Knapp] The choice of Dennis was an inside joke.
He says that's the name of his superior at Groom Lake.
-It wasn't a joke to Dennis. -He called right after, he said,
"You have any idea what we're going to do to you now?"
And I-- I said, "Well, no," and he's yelling up the phone.
When he did this, I told, I-- I was astonished because
it was courageous when he was on as Dennis
and silhouette on the news and stuff.
I mean, I was amazed by this guy
'cause he was putting it all on the line.
Look, they're doing everything they can
to keep this information secret.
And if they're gonna silence me,
whether it's something, you know, ridiculous,
like try to hurt me, uh...
that would kind of prove what I'm saying is true.
Why would this guy suddenly get, you know,
murdered or hurt in some way?
And, um, it just kind of seemed like
getting the information out would be a good idea.
[dramatic music]
I used to always travel around.
I always held the weapon
and-- because I mean, he's been shot at.
And I-- I was aware of that.
And I was-- I was willing to--
to fire back, you know, that was my friend.
Mario, who drove a motorcycle, was into racing and all that
came riding by one day and was paralyzed
by the fact that there was a
jet dragster in his neighborhood and
stopped his motorcycle and immediately got out
and started talking to me, and, you know.
From that point on, we kind of became friends over time
and, you know, still to this day,
he remains a really good friend and, uh,
went through a lot of-- a lot with me, uh...
as all this unfolded in Las Vegas.
He knew and I knew that he was targeted.
And I mean, I-- I think even before that, at one point
he was shot on the freeway.
You know, Mario was with me frequently
because we go to the gym every day and that's when,
you know, sometimes we park the car, come back out,
all the doors, hoods and back would be open,
even though we locked it and checked it before we left.
But nothing would be taken.
You know, and there was a loaded machine gun in the car
and wallets, but nothing would be touched.
My phone was tapped.
We were being followed all over the place.
I mean, I was being followed 'cause I was with Lazar.
The things that they were doing to mess with his life
were really happening, breaking into his house
and moving things around or opening the doors to his car
and leaving the gun sitting there or...
shooting at his tire or just messing with him.
There's no way to convey that to people
how real that was, uh, unless you were there.
But that it was real.
We were scared and there was pressure
on Bob and me
and our station to knock it off.
[sci-fi music]
I got a call from Dennis Mariani
and he said, "We need to talk.
Let's meet at the Union Plaza Casino."
After I got that call, I spoke to Gene Huff,
my other friend Joe at the time.
I wanted some-- you know, finally
some other witnesses to come with me.
And we all went to the Union Plaza Casino.
I think it was around eight o'clock or 8:30 at night.
If I recall, as I was walking
to where he wanted me to meet him,
I passed not one, but two guys
that looked super familiar to me
like they were security guards at S4.
And that really alerted me.
And I said something to Gene.
I said, "Something's-- something's weird here."
And I went up and I saw, um, uh, Dennis playing at a--
I don't remember what game it was,
but I went up alongside of him
and said, "Hey, Dennis."
And he didn't-- he wouldn't even look up at me.
And I said, you know, "Okay."
And-- and walked away,
and connected up with Gene who had eyes on him the entire time.
Bob sees Dennis at a blackjack table.
This guy won't even look at him.
Now, if he was a complete stranger that Bob wasn't
trying to pretend was Dennis,
he would have looked at him and said, "Get out of here, buddy.
What-- you know," he-- he keeps looking down at his cards and
he won't talk to Bob.
So Bob comes back and tells me that.
I mean, we weren't behind the slot machines for five seconds.
We looked back. Dennis is gone.
So it was-- it was weird to see him acting like this.
I wonder if those other guys weren't supposed to be there.
They saw him and he decided to shut up
and he really did want to talk to me
or they were with him or-- something like that.
But why did his attitude change so much between
when he called me, "Hey, we gotta talk."
And I got there and now I'm not-- I don't even exist.
So it almost made me think
somebody was privy to the conversation, scared him.
And, you know, that-- that was it.
We all got back together, Gene, Joe, and I,
we went back to the house, and my house had been broken into.
So was this entire thing set up
just to get us out of the house so they'd have access,
and, um, you know, who knows, or was it a coincidence?
[interviewer] Did anything happen at the house?
Like, they broke in, did they take anything?
Yeah, they did.
As time went on, my name became known,
but as far as the reception from people,
for the most part, only my friends and family
really believed my story
because they knew me before and after
some, of course, had seen the test flights.
And so there was no doubts in their mind,
but the general public certainly did not.
So, I looked like...
You know, just some hoaxster or some, you know,
weird guy out there telling strange stories.
[sci-fi dramatic music]
The weeks and months that followed that time
were very stressful and, uh...
...probably the-- the worst time in my life.
Um...
[sighs]
[interviewer] Take your time. [mutters]
I tried to say, "I'm the same guy who did these other stories."
And I could not understand why people did not believe it.
And it was important to me at the time, like,
"Hey, I'm-- I'm telling you the truth here.
I'm-- I'm telling you how we went through this process
of what steps we took to tell the Bob Lazar story."
And there were those who would just-- would not look at it,
would not take it seriously.
And I could not understand it.
And it bothered me in those days.
And it bothered me for a while,
but now we're looking at 34 years later
and it doesn't bother me a bit.
I do not give a shit
if people be-- believe Bob Lazar.
I know what I reported.
I know what he said.
I know he's telling the truth.
And I know there are other people
that know it's the truth.
And I don't care whether, uh,
they wanna drag me or him over the coals anymore.
Screw it.
Bob played a dangerous chess game
with some very dangerous people.
And he made the first move.
They were astonished that anybody had the
audacity to defy them.
And while they were thinking about that, Bob went public.
And he forced their hand. They either had to arrest him
and prove that what he was saying is true,
or they had to let him go and hope to exact
their revenge another time.
And I say this all the time.
A-- All this stuff is something that happened to him.
It's not who he is. Like he said before,
"I'd rather you not believe me and leave me alone."
A lot of stuff that Bob said turned out to be true
and was verifiable.
And it drives people crazy.
But, you know, the fact that
he knew about a place called S4.
You know, Nellis confirmed that, it was real.
He wouldn't tell me where it was,
but they confirmed it was real.
That whole hand scanner thing turned out to be real.
How did he know that stuff?
Uh, element 115. You know?
We still don't have a stable form of it, but, you know,
it makes sense that it could exist, uh, that
we have a reverse engineering program, uh, that these
big defense contractors have been conducting.
All that stuff coming out now, it is true.
He knew about it.
How did he know?
Just making it up, out of thin air.
The way it affected me, I felt bad for him
because I knew who he was, you know.
And what people were saying about him.
I mean, there was a lot of good people, but, um,
still, you always heard the bad stuff.
It's like, "You know, no wonder
he didn't wanna talk about it to anybody."
You know? He was very quiet and-- and I understand that.
So we really didn't focus on that at all.
It's just, let's do what we wanna do, have some goals in life
and things that we wanna do and focus on that.
[hopeful music]
[Lazar] It's a quiet place,
way up in the mountains, away from everything.
My wife has her barn and arena out there.
The house is here, and I have my lab at home.
And it's, you know, it's sizable.
It's 1500 square feet.
It's bigger than the... you know,
house I used to have in New Mexico to live in,
but I can carry on multiple experiments,
work on multiple projects, all at the same time.
And uh, it's-- it's a blast.
I c-- I could almost live in here, it's--
To me, it's the ultimate man cave.
I spend more and more time
in here kinda working towards retiring.
And, um--
Yeah, my wife is really--
my wife, Joy, is really into horses.
And uh, so, she can be in her-- I call it her lab,
is, uh, the-- the horse lab.
And I'm in here and, you know,
we come and hang out with each other, but
you know, we can have a good time
by ourselves doing our own thing.
This is Joy, my wife.
Are you filming?
[interviewer] Okay, let's start.
[overlapping dialogues and laughter]
-[all laughing] -Cut!
This is my wife, Joy.
-This is my husband, Bob. -Yeah.
-[laughs] -We met um...
-In-- -23 years ago
in 2000, August, in Las Vegas.
We were introduced by a mutual friend
and, um, it took us a while to figure out that we were
okay to date each other.
He liked horses. He hated Vegas.
And... what was the other reason?
-I don't know. It was just time to move. -He was very nice.
He was very nice.
[both laugh]
-Which was the reason-- -That was the reason to move?
-No, no, no. Um... -I was nice?
Yeah, so we left and then we went
-to New Mexico... -New Mexico.
And then Michigan,
and now we're here in the mountains of Oregon.
[music fades]
[ominous music]
[Lazar] I believe that some of the technology,
it may be all... of the technology should be kept secret
until we have a handle on everything, but certainly
the overview of what happened
just cannot be a secret from--
from anyone, not just the American people, but the rest of the world.
Let out the basic fact, that we have these crafts.
At one time, uh, aliens did at least visit
and dropped off something, however they got here.
Uh, that there was some contact made and then cut it short.
You don't need to release information on
the gravity generators, the weapon potential, was--
which is enormous, and-- and so on.
And how-- how would it affect life on Earth
if this stuff was widely available?
[Lazar] That's tough to say. I mean, you have
a different-- a completely different mode of travel.
Uh... what happens when you can play with time?
Uh, that gets into a-- a really [chuckles]
deep philosophical, you know, question there.
[Knapp] But I mean, we could-- it would change
a lot of stuff, change everything.
[Lazar] Oh yeah, it would change absolutely everything.
[Knapp] Think it'll ever come out?
[Lazar] Personally, no.
[ominous sci-fi music]
I have yet to be able to really prove my story.
I've been accused of lying and fabricating
this story for many, many years.
Although I've always said
there's no way for me to prove my story,
I always thought it was important to
let the world know what I saw at S4.
There's no doubt in my mind that these crafts exist.
I saw one, and was personally inside one.
This is possibly one of the biggest secrets,
if not the biggest secret, held in the world today.
Prior to becoming involved with the project,
I really never believed in flying saucers.
I didn't follow flying saucer stories,
read the literature associated with it,
or pay attention to any of the news reports.
My experience at S4 certainly changed my outlook on all this.
And now I know for a fact
that we are not alone.
[eerie synth music]
[retro synth music]
[music continues]
[flames roaring]
[muffled explosion]
[music fades]
These original maps, uh, were sent to us on behalf of Gene Huff.
Gene Huff was kind enough to order these
from the United States government and have
these original maps sent to us.
These are from the United States Department of the Interior
and these are maps of the Groom Lake area,
the Ticaboo Valley as you can see right here, and
the Papoose Lake area.
So these two are from provisional editions of 1983.
And the one that I have right here
is the one I was looking for.
This is the one of Papoose Lake.
So this one here
represents the exact location where,
uh, S4 is supposedly located.
So you've got Papoose Lake right here,
you've got the hillside where the base is located,
obviously the United States Department of the Interior.
And as I was looking at this,
what I noticed in the bottom left corner, it said
"Compiled from aerial photographs taken in 1968."
So, we had actually referred to some of these
back at the beginning of our project to
recreate the entire landscape there.
But what I noticed on the map when I got it
was it said, "Map edited in 1989."
So on the bottom right corner, it says "Papoose Lake, Nevada,
provisional edition 1989."
These are original maps.
These are numbered as well.
So these are not, uh-- these are not copies.
These are your original ones from--
that you have to order and pay for.
And I really wanna thank Gene Huff for this.
And when you go on their website,
and you get to see the exact maps, you-- you can actually,
uh, see them and download them.
They have a stamp on this particular one
of the Papoose Lake, uh, area.
And the provisional edition was stamped May 1989.
And why that's important is because it just so happened
that that is exactly when Bob Lazar went public.
He went public with the Dennis interview in May of 1989.
[eerie synth music]
[inaudible]
[Vendittelli] Do you believe
that it's possible that the government will
come clean anytime soon with what's really going on?
You know, I think probably
because of religion, they'd be hesitant to do it.
[music continues]
Uh-- You got the seat really well.
-[cheering] -[grunting]
[cheering and clapping]
[woman] Bob! Bob!
-[explosion] -[boy] Oh shit!
[laughing]
-[laughing] -Don't do it!
[laughing]
[music continues]
-[electric whirring] -W-- it's not gonna hurt you.
You have to keep your options open and...
maybe they've narrowed down or proven
you know, where they came from.
Somebody has to have a lot more answers.